Please don’t confuse Ukraine and its history of indigenous Russian territory with WW2. The current war was entirely fostered by continued western interference and a Russian reaction to this interference. Konrad Kisin will tell you as an expatriate Russian , that Russia hold national security as paramount. I can tell you that the public boasting of compromised president Biden suborning legal process in Ukraine is just one example. To say nothing of Zelinsky who brought along a Russian fighting Ukrainian ww2 Nazi to the Canadian parliament to be honoured. The entire parliament of Canada rose like sheep to applaud a Nazi because he fought the Russians in ww2?
Zelinsky is completely compromised. Corruption rampant. Ukrainians dying every day.
John — you ended your post saying, “War is wrong”. I assume that sums up your motivation for everything in your post: you want the fighting to end.
Now consider this. Ukraine is a sovereign state. Some 20 percent of its territory has been forcibly occupied by a foreign power. Trump advocates quietly accepting the status quo as the basis for drawing new borders for Ukraine as the basis for a “ peace settlement “.
What consequences would follow? Would Putin’s hunger for Ukrainian conquest be appeased? How long before Russia would try to carve out another slice on som pretext such as “security “ or denial of Ukrainian nationhood? What does it mean to other disputes such as China/Taiwan?
Basing your policy on the premise that war should be avoided, no matter what the consequences, obviates the whole point of having any defensive capability, since it would never be used. Therefore, your own security would be outsourced to other states: you would gamble that they would respect your sovereign rights.
Such an approach to international relations could only exist in a world where all nations agreed to respect each others’ sovereignty and territorial integrity— as laid out in the UN Charter.
Allowing Europe to have free healthcare and other social benefits denied to our citizens because we provide their defense is beyond stupid and is ending no matter what anyone thinks.
Paying for the defense of Europe. Here’s the math. The UK plus EU’s GDP is $22T. Russia’s is $2T. If the EU spent 3% of GDP on defense that would total $660B. If Russia tried to match that effort it would take fully a third of their output. Obviously impossible. Europe can easily defend itself.
The assurance that Jelensky was seeking in the infamous White House meeting was that we would send in our troops if Putin breached any agreement aimed at ending the war. No American president including Trump and Biden would or could give him that assurance because it’s a de facto NATO membership. We have no idea if the thug Putin will stick to any agreement he makes (and he is not to be trusted) so we can’t commit to an armed response by our troops due to his perfidy. We can only say that if it does happen we will continue to supply weapons and ammunition to Ukraine.
Many people including the most powerful man in the world are advising the Ukrainians to acknowledge that they will never regain the Russian speaking territory that they have lost and that their only hope for survival as a people is to cede that land to a more powerful adversary. I happen to agree with that advice and have thought it was prudent since the outbreak of the war. Many countries have given up land when they lost wars and have continued to survive and even prosper. Germany and Japan being two more recent examples and yes, they were the aggressors, unlike Ukraine.
It is a very difficult time for our nation where most now have no experience of military service and no desire that their children or grandchildren ever have that experience and yet we are forced to struggle with our relationship to an ongoing European war. I have nothing but contempt for those who urge us to support a war with no intention to actually ever have to personally suffer from the consequences of their urging. During the Vietnam war we called those individuals chicken hawks and they are once again flapping their wings and their beaks.
Sorry, but where Ukraine is concerned, Trump is full of crap. He seems to be laboring under the delusion that V. Putin can be trusted. And more than once, he has had the unmitigated gall to blame Ukraine for the war that Russia started. He has lied repeatedly about the costs to America of aid to Ukraine. He has lied repeatedly about the European contribution, falsely claiming that European nations are doing next to nothing. And whatever happened to his promise to end the war on day one of his presidency? Honestly, if you can’t see that he’s been blowing smoke, I can’t help you.
That is such crap. Either I’m right on the merits our I’m wrong. Read everything I’ve written on Ukraine and show where I’m wrong. Or you can just get lost.
And for your information, I served in the United States Army for twenty-eight years, and I’ve been around a war or two. So you can take that cheap hit and deposit it in a deep, dark, place.
John, a great number of peace-loving, non-armchair generals will tell you that you are not seeing the whole picture. The fragile peace won by the Allies in WWII which pretty much lasted for 70 years would never have happened without the enormous sacrifice made by the Allied forces.
Peace is the most precious thing worth fighting for, but sometimes you just have to do the part that involves actually fighting.
Thank you for your service. Your view of Ukraine is very different from mine.
> Your view of Ukraine is very different from mine.
That's because Thomas's view is correct and yours isn't.
Please don’t confuse Ukraine and its history of indigenous Russian territory with WW2. The current war was entirely fostered by continued western interference and a Russian reaction to this interference. Konrad Kisin will tell you as an expatriate Russian , that Russia hold national security as paramount. I can tell you that the public boasting of compromised president Biden suborning legal process in Ukraine is just one example. To say nothing of Zelinsky who brought along a Russian fighting Ukrainian ww2 Nazi to the Canadian parliament to be honoured. The entire parliament of Canada rose like sheep to applaud a Nazi because he fought the Russians in ww2?
Zelinsky is completely compromised. Corruption rampant. Ukrainians dying every day.
War is wrong
John — you ended your post saying, “War is wrong”. I assume that sums up your motivation for everything in your post: you want the fighting to end.
Now consider this. Ukraine is a sovereign state. Some 20 percent of its territory has been forcibly occupied by a foreign power. Trump advocates quietly accepting the status quo as the basis for drawing new borders for Ukraine as the basis for a “ peace settlement “.
What consequences would follow? Would Putin’s hunger for Ukrainian conquest be appeased? How long before Russia would try to carve out another slice on som pretext such as “security “ or denial of Ukrainian nationhood? What does it mean to other disputes such as China/Taiwan?
Basing your policy on the premise that war should be avoided, no matter what the consequences, obviates the whole point of having any defensive capability, since it would never be used. Therefore, your own security would be outsourced to other states: you would gamble that they would respect your sovereign rights.
Such an approach to international relations could only exist in a world where all nations agreed to respect each others’ sovereignty and territorial integrity— as laid out in the UN Charter.
Frankly he reminds me of the people thought Rittenhouse should be locked up because "killing is wrong".
> War is wrong
Tell that to Putin.
Good points.
One possibility (that I am hoping for) is that Trump will publicly blame Putin for the failure of the peace process.
If Putin is the villain, Trump can resume supporting Ukraine.
Slim, but possible.
I have absolute faith in the European ability to schedule conferences and do nothing.
I expect a slow grinding of Ukraine, much like the past year.
Allowing Europe to have free healthcare and other social benefits denied to our citizens because we provide their defense is beyond stupid and is ending no matter what anyone thinks.
Paying for the defense of Europe. Here’s the math. The UK plus EU’s GDP is $22T. Russia’s is $2T. If the EU spent 3% of GDP on defense that would total $660B. If Russia tried to match that effort it would take fully a third of their output. Obviously impossible. Europe can easily defend itself.
The assurance that Jelensky was seeking in the infamous White House meeting was that we would send in our troops if Putin breached any agreement aimed at ending the war. No American president including Trump and Biden would or could give him that assurance because it’s a de facto NATO membership. We have no idea if the thug Putin will stick to any agreement he makes (and he is not to be trusted) so we can’t commit to an armed response by our troops due to his perfidy. We can only say that if it does happen we will continue to supply weapons and ammunition to Ukraine.
Many people including the most powerful man in the world are advising the Ukrainians to acknowledge that they will never regain the Russian speaking territory that they have lost and that their only hope for survival as a people is to cede that land to a more powerful adversary. I happen to agree with that advice and have thought it was prudent since the outbreak of the war. Many countries have given up land when they lost wars and have continued to survive and even prosper. Germany and Japan being two more recent examples and yes, they were the aggressors, unlike Ukraine.
It is a very difficult time for our nation where most now have no experience of military service and no desire that their children or grandchildren ever have that experience and yet we are forced to struggle with our relationship to an ongoing European war. I have nothing but contempt for those who urge us to support a war with no intention to actually ever have to personally suffer from the consequences of their urging. During the Vietnam war we called those individuals chicken hawks and they are once again flapping their wings and their beaks.
What if the war does go on, but the US puts no more money into it?
What annoys me most by your depressingly nihilist summary can be summed up by the fact you ignore two simple factors :
War is wrong.
Trump is trying to achieve peace.
The rest of your diatribe is a testament to your elitism
Trump will be proven, by his good or even his bad to be an agent for positive change in America.
Amazing how pacifism always starts with "war is wrong" and ends with "it's your own fault for being invaded".
Sorry, but where Ukraine is concerned, Trump is full of crap. He seems to be laboring under the delusion that V. Putin can be trusted. And more than once, he has had the unmitigated gall to blame Ukraine for the war that Russia started. He has lied repeatedly about the costs to America of aid to Ukraine. He has lied repeatedly about the European contribution, falsely claiming that European nations are doing next to nothing. And whatever happened to his promise to end the war on day one of his presidency? Honestly, if you can’t see that he’s been blowing smoke, I can’t help you.
Go to Ukraine and fight the good cause then. Anyone like yourself who wants to play war hawk should go to Ukraine and find out for yourself
You and a whole lot of arm chair warriors have no Clue about life and death in war.
Dont give me the “ Putin can’t be trusted” bs. Biden ? Trust him? Boris Johnson ? Trust him ?
War is wrong
That is such crap. Either I’m right on the merits our I’m wrong. Read everything I’ve written on Ukraine and show where I’m wrong. Or you can just get lost.
And for your information, I served in the United States Army for twenty-eight years, and I’ve been around a war or two. So you can take that cheap hit and deposit it in a deep, dark, place.
John, a great number of peace-loving, non-armchair generals will tell you that you are not seeing the whole picture. The fragile peace won by the Allies in WWII which pretty much lasted for 70 years would never have happened without the enormous sacrifice made by the Allied forces.
Peace is the most precious thing worth fighting for, but sometimes you just have to do the part that involves actually fighting.